Your Favorite Movie is Racist
Your Favorite Movie is Racist
ALIENS | Let's talk about Vasquez
So... we LOVE this movie... but they also painted a person brown. So conflicted. In their debut episode, Chris, Tawny and Miles dive into James Cameron's classic film Aliens, and explore one racially problematic element of the film. They then discuss whether the movie holds up in spite of that one notable problem.
Hello everyone. This is Chris one third of the two blacks in the Mexican team. I just want to let you all know that there's a video version of this episode on YouTube. So just look us up on YouTube, two blacks and a Mexican, if you want to see our lovely faces. All right, thanks. Enjoy the show.
Tawny:You know, I always just think like, while you're in the moment, when you're like standing there literally painting someone like, like, why is there no, like,
Chris:Wait a minute, wait a minute.
Tawny:Perhaps... There's another way.
Chris:We are two blacks and a Mexican. I'm Chris.
Tawny:I'm Tawny.
Miles:I'm Miles
Chris:This show is called Your Favorite Movie is Racist. And before you turn away, um, we are going to basically take some time to talk about our favorite movies and have a really fun discussion, and revisit those movies and think about whether they actually hold up in 2020. You know, we live in a different time than we did when some of these movies came out and some of them are truly considered classics. Um, some of them are our favorite movies, but there's like one thing about them that we might want to rethink, uh, in this new era. This is all in the name of fun for the sake of us just having a good conversation. So the first movie we're going to start off with is Aliens, the1986 film by James Cameron, the s equel to Alien. This is a film that all three of us really love. And so we thought this would be the best one to completely tear apart in our first episode. So, u m, so the way this show works is we're g oing t o spend some time talking about the movie, gassing it up a little bit, but not really gassing it up because it's truly a movie that we love. And then we'll dive into the one thing about it. That means it might be racist... and then we'll talk about whether that's okay or not. So let's first talk about the greatness of Aliens. What is it that we love about this movie?
Miles:Everything. To me, when I think of like great sequels, I feel like you can't make a list or name off any. It's like the quintessential great sequel to me, like where in most cases, when you get to the second one or even a third one, it kind of turns to sh*t. This one. Like i t's debatable. Like I've had arguments where I've had the b ase where I've been like n ow the first one is still like t he, you know, for many reasons the better one, this one is debatable is a debatable s equel where I could easily see somebody saying, this is, this is better than the first one. Like, which is rare. I mean, it's shot beautifully. Like the c ash is incredible. I t's just dope.
Tawny:Yeah, same. I, um, I think there's two very different vibes going on. Um, in the two movies that I read, I was reading, I read like a buttload of articles, um, this week, but, um, I read one that like characterize the original as being leftist, which I thought was kind of interesting, but I could see it. And it was like, uh, but, but aliens is sort of like this Reagan action fantasy of like, um, this like action and guns and tough Marines and going into places and ultimately defending ultimately like the movie is about defending the nuclear family from the perspective of enjoying the movie. This is the first alien movie that I, I saw. I didn't see the original first. I was born that year. I'm 40. I'm going to be 41 this year. So we're, I'm the same age as the original. Um, and then there was nothing more that I wanted in my life than to be Newt
Chris:Newt is one of the few child characters that doesn't suck. Um, I was, I was rewatching it and I'm like, man, in my head, I'm like, you know, yeah. She's like, she's smart. And she has ideas. And she, she, uh, she knows her way around the base. Like she has a purpose in the story other than being the kid that needs saved. And that's pretty dope.
Tawny:And she's still a little girl.
Chris:Right. And she's still a little girl.
Miles:She kind of saves them in a lot of different ways because they don't know what they're getting into once they get there.
Chris:So yeah. She's like the, she's the...
Miles:The tour guide.
Chris:Yeah. She's the tour guide and like what I dig about aliens and it's one of those rare it's like, how often is it that the sequel to a movie can be in a different genre than the original movie?
Tawny:I read a quote. It was like, there was a James Cameron quote where he's like, I wanted to move away from horror and more into terror. And I was like, I could see that.
Miles:That's dope.
Chris:That's a good quote. It was before he started, we, we can do another episode about James Cameron, but it was before he got kind of problematic.
Miles:I know. Right.
Chris:And as I was watching it, I started drawing all these mental parallels to Terminator 2, um, or just even Terminator. Like you can tell the seeds of what he did with that franchise were being planted when he did this movie. Because even like at the beginning, when they're all gaslighting Ripley, you know what I mean? Like it's the same thing that happens to Sarah Conner in Terminator 2, uh, and this kind of threat that they don't believe is there, but they kind of know because they should know. Cause like they had cameras everywhere. Like all these things kind of happened in Terminator 2 as well. I actually have this like really nice anthology thing. Yeah. It's pretty dope. It's like all the movies and you know, what's funny.,, I have never seen Alien Resurrection.
Miles:Really?
Chris:Yeah. It's in this anthology. I've never seen it.
Tawny:It's bizarre. It's it's worth watching. It's not for everyone. It's the director of Amélie. So it has a lot of those weird quirky, French... And Brad Dourif. Like if you ever need to add a touch of weirdness to your movie, Brad Dourif is your guy.
Chris:Crazy. Uh, yeah. I've never seen it. I've had this anthology for like five years and I haven't watched Alien Resurrection yet. I actually grew up really liking Alien 3 for the record, but we don't have to talk about that.
Miles:Oh my God.
Tawny:I did too! I liked it. I did
Miles:Hard disagree.
Tawny:I love it. I love the aesthetic. It was David Fincher.
Chris:He will not claim that movie though.
Miles:He will not claim it. That's the funny thing is like retrospectively looking back. I was like, I was watching it one day cause I was like watching all of them and like that title came up and I, last time I saw that it was like 1990 something I don't even remember. And then it was like"directed by David Fincher." I was like, what the f*ck? I was like, what? And then I had to go look and I was like, it's so not David Fincher that like, there was a bunch of stuff behind the scenes with that movie where like his name ended up being on there because he was a part of it. And it was like, I think different drafts of it to begin with, but it ended up changing. And then he, he got as far as way from that sh*t as possible, and to this day will claim that. And it arguably has one of the most iconic alien shots in it. Just in general.
Chris:Yeah. And it's like the Aliens like right here. Yeah. That is where it's from. And that's yeah. You know, Charles S. Dutton was in it. I knew him from Roc. So I was like, hey, this movie is pretty dope.
Tawny:Do you know how often, like Roc randomly floats across my consciousness. And I'm like, why? It's just in there,
Chris:But, uh, but rock Roc was in Alien 3. So, you know, I like Alien 3.
Miles:It's actually not that bad.,
Tawny:It was the first time that you saw the Xenomorph changed form. And I thought that was an interesting idea that then became canon, was that depending on what the host was, the Xenomorph would take on characteristics...
Chris:The dog. It was like a dog.
Miles:It was a Rottweiler.
Tawny:Yeah. And I think that's an important idea to whole franchise and the whole like canon.
Chris:It has a place in history, but it is not Aliens. I think we can all agree that it is not Aliens.
Tawny:Yeah. The one that I get to watch most is Aliens. The one that I'm like, I've got to watched something like, yeah!
Chris:So what else can we say that we really love about this before we transition?
Tawny:I mean Bill Paxton, the comic notes, the, um, just the ensemble, it's a fun ensemble in a way, and the original movie was technically ensemble too, but this ensemble is so fun.
Miles:I'll also, lastly for me, was say just how much they leaned into making Ripley.... I feel like in the first movie that was not her role at all to be like some bad- ass. She just rose to the circumstance. Cause when you first watched the first Alien movie, I don't necessarily feel like she's the main character. It's very ensemble because you know, it's this rag tag team of, you know, like people out here doing their job.
Chris:So I guess now we can transition into the racist. What is the... Tawny, who's one of your favorite characters in Aliens?
Tawny:Uh, Vasquez. You can probably tell by my haircut. So yeah.
Chris:Why don't we talk about what we love about Vasquez? And then we'll talk about what we need to talk about... about Vasquez.
Tawny:She's a bad ass. Like there's nobody in that movie, this I Rose again, I was reading an article and it was like, um, the elephant in the room is that Vasquez is even less feminine than Ripley, which is like, kind of an interesting way of thinking about it. When you think about the women in the movie and the most fascinating thing to me about her and the thing that I think was intriguing, um, you know, as a woman who sometimes has tomboyish tendencies, um, was like, she was a woman, she was very masculine in some ways, but then you have that weird bond and chemistry with Drake. I dunno, you know, the Drake, her buddy, um, like"you're just too bad Vasquez." And like, so there was always this ambiguity for me of like, she was this bad, like butch, like masculine, like five-two like my height, like a tiny woman, carrying this massive weapon, kicking ass, makes almost to the end... and like, that's, that's the only thing that, I'm like, oh, I kind of almost wish it wo uld h a ve b een her that made it. But, she went out like a superstar and there was nothing, she wasn't afraid, like she was there and it wasn't just like, I'm tough, I have everyone's back. And that's why she died, because she had everyone's back. So yeah.
Chris:Now that's, one of the most iconic shots in that movie is her with that giant gun, um, going, you know, uh, almost like that synchronized part with her and, is that Drake?
Miles:Yeah. I love that scene right at the beginning.
Chris:Yeah she's oiled up. Like this is going down.
Tawny:"Has anybody ever mistaken you for a man?" No, you?" Yeah. Perfect. And it was like, that's it, we don't need to talk about her sexuality anymore after that moment where she just completely diffuses the whole thing. And I love that.
Chris:She's such a well-written character, and a well-performed and acted character. Tawny, who plays Vasquez?
Tawny:Uh, Jennette Goldstein, who actually has a pretty, um, mixed, you know, complex ethnic, um, heritage, but who was in brownface and dark contacts and dyed hair for her portrayal, her brilliant portrayal of a private Vasquez.
Chris:So this, especially during like 2020, when folks are getting folks are getting dragged, it's definitely worth talking about how we feel about that. Can we separate ourselves? Maybe we separate ourselves from a moment from the movie and the performance and you know, how do we feel about this idea of a non-Latina woman playing this role? And literally, like you said, putting on brown face and changing her appearance for it.
Miles:Yeah. It was funny. Cause it's funny. Cause we were like watching it like, uh, maybe last week and my wife and my daughter were checking it out. And I was telling them this story, like, that that's the same lady from Titanic. And then she was in a Judgment Day, like she's the foster mom or whatever and judgment day. And they're looking at the p ictures and they're like, that's not the same lady. I'm like, I'm telling you it is. And then we all collectively were like, why didn't they just get a Spanish person t o p lay her? Or a Mexican? Like if you, if you wanted to play that role, there are Mexican actors, you know, actors that you c ould h ave gotten to play that role. A nd I mean, i t's just like obviously t he timeframe and you know how we all know how problematic Hollywood is just in general where, you know, watch any movie about Egypt and the whole cast w hite.
Tawny:Elizabeth Taylor?
:Yeah. Exactly
Chris:Yeah. But like, I guess what I struggle with is that idea that you're making a movie and you decide to create a character named Vasquez and you write her out, and instead of being like, let's, let's go find a Latina actress... nah let's, let's just get this lady and just paint her brown.
Miles:Paint her brown. Isn't that more work?
Chris:Right. That's what I was thinking.
Miles:Like it reminds me, it's like the episode, the radioactive man episode of the Simpsons and they' come to like a Springfield and they like painting the horses or whatever. And they like, why are you, why don't you guys paint those horses? And they're like, yeah, cows don't look like cows on screen. You gotta paint horses. What do you do if you want a horse? Just tape a bunch of cats together. Like more work just to get a horse. It's like, yo, why do it like that? I feel like that's the Hollywood thing is like, let's go around everything. Instead of just going directly to the source.
Tawny:It's that like I was reading an article recently completely unrelated to this about like structural racism is like people like you don't have to actively Harbor negative feelings towards someone based on skin color to participate in structural racism. Even if you're saying like, well, we can't, we can't bankroll this movie because people won't see it because it's got brown people and the white people, like that's racism, that's structural racism. It's like being afraid of how racist will react is part of structural racism.
Chris:If you could time travel and go back, it's like, do you change that in favor of something that is an actual, but you know, coming from an authentic, um, place, um, or do you love it as is? And could we argue that like that role could have been any better plate, um, than it was because what we've seen is what we got. We never got to see any other version of it. I think like, I think like the time that we live in now there is like this, um, I don't know, there's this urge to, to say like, well less this role would be better served if someone, you know, that was actually Latino was, was playing the role because it's a Latino character. Like why not have someone that's actually that in this instance is interesting because her lot being Latino is actually not that significant to her role as the character. So while it is like probably like a big glaring issue with Hollywood, if you look back like retrospectively, like at that character that someone else playing it, that was in fact like a Latino of Latino heritage. It honestly wouldn't add anything else to the character specifically, if we're just talking about the performance, right. If we're just talking solely performance, that makes little to no difference. Honestly, because most people that watched it didn't even know that they wouldn't have thought one way or another, whether she actually was, or not until in the future, you find out like, you know, us 30 something years later, we're like, wait, what? Like that it doesn't affect the character in this instance. Like whether or not she actually was, or she wasn't it's stuff that you had the pain, but it doesn't necessarily mean that you had to have someone laugh. Like it almost makes me wonder, like why she had to be like Latino in the first place.
Tawny:You know? I always just think like, while you're in the moment when you're like standing there literally painting someone Like the, like, why is there no, like,
Chris:Wait a minute, wait a minute.
Tawny:There's another way. But
Chris:No, it was one production assistant that was probably like, Hey, and James is like, Hey, this is my movie buddy. And he's like, alright.
Tawny:And thank God now, you know? And it's like people, Oh, you're, everyone's so sensitive. It's like, let's do it right now. Like now that we know better, let's fucking do it. Right. Like let's try to do, let's do it. Right. Let's give people opportunities. Let's give actors of these underrepresented groups. Like let's give them opportunities to go back in time and do aliens again. I don't think is like, I don't think that's helping or changing anything or to even talk about sure. Her performance is brilliant and nuanced and completely respectful. Like if it came from. And I don't like when I try to explain sometimes to people like the difference between, um, taking something and the different and appreciating it, like trying to claim something versus appreciating it is that the performance is done with love. And that sounds stupid, but like, there's, there's a love in that performance. And because of that, I didn't know that Vish was not Latino for most of my life.
Chris:No. I mean, that's real like, and you know, I guess what I'm thinking is there is there's that nuance and thinking about what was the intent behind the thing. Um, it's like that the whole kind of argument, you know, the Jimmy Fallon, Jimmy Kimmel stuff that, that has been, that came up the past few weeks of both of them in different situations, uh, wearing blackface. Yeah. Um, and I actually thought one, in one instance it was offensive and in the other, it wasn't. So like I went and watched Jimmy Fallon and what he was doing. And I was like, he was doing like a
Speaker 3:Pretty good in person, impersonation of Chris rock.
Chris:And it was within the context of this skit. And part of the humor was that he wasn't Chris rock. And then he was a white dude, but like, uh, it was
Speaker 3:Pretty good, Chris Rocky, my impression. Yeah.
Chris:And I'm like, you know what, like I know that he's not trying to be racist. I know this is part of the humor that's happening right now. But then in the instance of Jimmy Kimmel, where he's supposed to be Carl Malone, and he's just doing a stereotypical, like black guy accent, and he's just like, Hey, yo, I'm calling him alone. Like,
Speaker 3:I'm like, okay. That is like racist to me. Like that, that offends me. Cause I'm like, that doesn't sound like
Chris:Karl Malone.
Speaker 3:Yeah. You just, you just painted yourself black and started
Chris:Or Jersey and started talking like that. I think maybe the part that offends me as when they take the extreme of any one race and decide to portray that, I feel like her character is so nuanced in the movie. I don't feel like they're necessarily. Yeah. They give her kind of this hard, rough and tough LA street edge or whatever. But I don't, I don't feel like that's the main thing about her. Like, and obviously she's not the main character, but just what you get from her. It doesn't seem like they're just trying to like, like when I watch Scarface, I just get irritated because, because his accent is horrible, it's terrible. Like it's like, first of all, like people don't sound like this. Like
Speaker 3:People period,
Chris:Anywhere, nobody sounds like, is there anything else we want to say about this kind of, um, the re-examining of aliens in 2020? Because I mean, the one thing that comes to mind for me is let's say you've never seen aliens. I have a 17 year old who hasn't seen it yet. If I were to watch that with him now, and he would have watched that movie and then learned that this was an example of Brown face in a way. Um, do we think that this, Oh, are we, are we on the cusp of aliens getting canceled? Because it's at my question because, you know, I mean, I just feel like it's, I feel like
Tawny:I'm not even close. Like I I've loved her my whole life, um, in this really stupid way. Like, and I, and I, and I'm not, I'm not gay. Um, but there's something about Vasquez's sort of queerness, um, that, and, and, and it just being sort of part of who she is, as opposed to being the one character note, um, in the same way that being Latina, um, she's just, she's a character and these elements and these facets of her character, um, are, are performed so beautifully. And I just think she's such a wonderful character that I, I could never say goodbye to her.
Chris:Yeah. I know. Yeah. I agree. Like, is it, it's only a matter of time before, what's it what's today, Wednesday, maybe next Wednesday aliens will be trending, like to go back and destroy. Like there's, there's certain things I know there's like that talk about like, gone with the wind right now. And like it's portrayal of you, you know, saying like that right now. And it's like, well, part of me is like, well, I mean, honestly, no, I don't think we should throw that away because this shows us what filmmaking was like at that time. Like, I don't want it to disappear. I want to know what it was like at that time. Like, you should know that you shouldn't be only looking at the world through your 20, 20 filter. Well, so if we were rating aliens as a movie, um, with the understanding that there's some there's, uh, at least one problematic element to it as a movie, where does it sit? Um, we haven't decided on a rating system yet. So we're each gonna kind of give our thoughts, um, on where aliens sits. Um, given what we know about Vasquez as a character, um, for me, I'll say, uh, it's a classic. It will continue to be a classic. I will show it to my kids when they're old enough to, to watch people explode, you know, explode. Um, but, uh, I'll say yes, it stays in the collection with the conversation. Um, because I won't allow my kids to watch this movie and then not know about that aspect of it. You know, I'll definitely because it's not clear if you just watch it. Um, my, my wife had a funny reaction. She didn't know about it and we were watching it last night and I said, Hey, did you know this? And she was like, ah, Googled it. And she just burst out laughing. And when she saw, she was like, what? Because she, you know, the classic scene from Terminator two with the milk carton. And I was like, yeah, it's the same lady. It's amazing what, you know? Um, and so it's worth the conversation, but I'll say it's a classic with the conversation. How about, yeah.
Tawny:I love that classic with a conversation. Absolutely not giving up on it. Gonna probably scream out let's rock every time she does on film. It's the best. Nobody has a more noble death in that movie. So yeah. And my boys have seen it cause apparently I'm probably a bad parent.
Chris:Well, I probably first, first I would say, I'm going to start a solo podcast called classic with a conversation cause that name, but, uh, nah, like I'm an agreeance, like for me on a scale of one to 10, this is a 35 G this, this movie is excellent. Like it's just so good. Like, and that one thing, like, again, like you said, like it's sort of, there's like this anonymity to that character where it's like, I didn't know that you wouldn't know it. Who knows that nobody knows that. Except for like nerdy ass people like us that like, like paying attention, they'll look it up. Right. Paying attention and watching hours of information about the behind the scenes of this movie online. Like this movie is a classic period, no discussion. I will debate anybody like the reverence of this month. Like, it's just so good. Like, so definitely like, this is a keeper for me. Like I I'm probably gonna watch it tomorrow. Like I'll have it on in the background while I'm living my life. Like I just, I just put it on, like, it just it's just on constantly. So yeah, definitely. That's what's up. Well, I think that that seals it for us. Um, obviously we are not the authority on everything, but we do think face huggers are adorable. Um, I appreciate everybody who has joined us, who for tuning in, um, please take a moment to comment or, um, re reply and just think about like, where does alien sit for you? If you haven't seen it, please see it. Um, but if you have knowing what we know about it, where does it sit for you? Because we don't all feel the same. Um, there will be more movies. We will discuss lots of classics and I can tell you right now, not all of them will get the pass from us. Um, but aliens certainly does. So thank you all for joining us and adios. All right. I really hope y'all enjoy the show. We had a lot of fun making this. I hope you enjoyed listening to it. We're really excited to do more of these. Again, if you want to see the video version of this, it is on YouTube, uh, two blacks and a Mexican. Uh, you can also find us on Twitter at two blacks, one Mexican to have some conversation with us. Uh, really hope you enjoyed the show. Have a good one. Thanks.